Posts by Band on the Run

16

ExJWs and NonJWs Ask: Should I Try to Change My Mate?

by pirata in

jw
friends

i put this together more as a collection of my thoughts.

i would appreciate hearing your thoughts, disagreements, rebuttals, etc on this subject as it has been weighing a lot on my mind lately:.

after reading a lot of heart-breaking stories over the years on this message forum about mates who no longer believe in the jw religion, the common thread seems to be a desire to get the jw mate to see the same thing; with usually dissapointing results.. i am currently of the opinion that maybe the best thing is not to try to change your mate's religion.

Band on the Run

I lived in Manhattan for forty years and witnesses many Jewish/Christian couples. Past generations one usually converted to the other's religion. My generation seems different. People respect the other's backkground without trashing their own. I worshipped in large, urban churches. When Christmas and Easter arrived, many Jewish spouses visited the church to spend the impt holidays with their spouse. Some went their own way to church or synoggue but it did not seem to mar the marriage. Well, these were secular or reform Jews. Perhaps a few conservative. No Orthodox Jews. I suppose this was possible b/c neither side preached supremacy.

I wonder how any marriage stays together when only one becomes a Witness. It affects private marital affairs. The religion is so encompassing it affects life in general. It is not just one segment of life.

I am active in Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families. My family put the D in dysfunctional. The central tenet of AA and other Twelve Step programs is that you focus on yourself. It is not possible to control another person. If lawyers could solicit, I'd attend a KH and hand out business cards for divorce law. I recall the grief of the sisters concerning their husbands. Do you look forward to Armageddon when your beloved will die horribly? When people preach to me about anything, I shut them out with locks on my mind. Rather than converting me to their viewpoint, they make my initial view strong as steel. Example is another matter. True discussion is another.

I see marriage as special. Society certainly regards it as so. All sorts of tax breaks (unfair), rights, privileges and confidentialty attach. I don't know how spouses stay together.

8

JWs and Education

by Liberty93 in

so this isn't one of the normal zomg teh witnesses h8 educashun!!!

!1 threads, because we all know that -.

rather, i'd just like to note that i was reading about paul today, and remembered that not only did he have an extremely good education for his time and speak, write, and read multiple languages, he was also aware of, and educated about, all of those horrible, worldly, ungodly philosophies that the jws are so scared of.. of course, when they're harping on the "you don't need college" bs, they never note that or take the more plausible line that education would help people defend their faith rationally (because it's not about beliefs anymore) because they know that taking an introductory logic course and two semesters of world history would sink any and all belief in what they say.... just a few thoughts..

Band on the Run

I thought that the Witnesses would value foreign languages more than any other discipline. They are very practical. A close friend worked at the UN and knew eight! He knew English, French, German and Italian well with certificates in Russian, Spanish and Norwegian. When he needed an academic leave from Yale he studied Norwegian in Norway. I struggled so hard with French. My life long goal is to become fluent in French. Hopefully, I can afford an immersion course.

Were it not for Paul's training in rhetoric, his letters would not be so forceful. His intellect stands out. Once you read his authentic letters, the Timothys and others become obviously nonPauline. I despised Paul as a witness. Now I admire him so much.

89

Being Under Cult Mind Control is a Psychological Disorder - Steve Hassan

by flipper in

jw
friends

thought perhaps some newer members who haven't heard some of hassan's thoughts on mind control might relate to this from their own experiences in jehovah's witnesses .

even though mind control is initiated by the cult involved in controlling it's members - hassan points out - it actually becomes a psychological disorder which can entrap the victim himself or herself - all the while - as they are being controlled by the leaders of cults.. on page 55 of hassan's book " releasing the bonds - empowering people to think for themselves " it states what happens in a destructive cult , " in a destructive cult, the locus of control shifts to the group or it's leader .

the new recruit abdicates his ability to make decisions.

Band on the Run

I haven't read the books yet. My time here has convinced me that the officials of the wts are running a destructive cult, masquerading as religion. It may be a true religion for the rank and file. Cult is a perjorative term. They didn't stumble onto cult control technique. Rather, they are cunning as foc. I fled when I was tween. I did well academically and love people. My inner gut told me God must be love not a crazy lunatic wiping his creation out with violence. My local brothers were not educated. I kept catching reading errors and wondering if I would die for sinning against the Holy Spirit.

JWs are particularly cruel and vicious to children. Armageddon is hard for a child to imagine. It destroys any sense of personal safety and autonomy. I never heard about God's love only his abominations such as Abraham and Isaac, slaughter of children for not being Israelites, and Armageddon. They became demon heavy when I hit adolescence. I live in terror to this day. My time was consumed being on a demon alert--checking the spaces behind door hinges, in closets and behind shower curtains. Nights were the worse. I eyeballed my room continuously until I fell asleep. Looking for them prevented me from recalling precious moments of that day or how my dolls were doing. Decades later,my sister and I discussed this recently. She was seven years younger. She patrolled our room, too. We could have coordinated our efforts to get more sleep.

I have advanced degrees from an Ivy League university. My life is very worldly. Walking away was hard in many ways. I completed feared rejection. B/c of my father's abuse and hatred of education, I had to face a court battle to stay in high school. My classmates were off to Paris and London. My inner self told me to run. Rationally, I had nothing but condemnation after taking a college course that required me to read the bible consecutively. What liars. If I face bad anxiety today, my fear of demons returns. Bad weather might make me fear Armageddon.

Once I read my Bible, there was no way I could ever return under any circumstances. All the pain of my childhood was for naught. The only thing I can do is embrace today. Bitterness is present. My soul soars with my precious freedom. Now I can respect God rather than view him as my enemy. She loves all.

18

Do you dress your pets?

by Snoozy in

as a child i had many cats and delighted in putting my doll clothes on them and rocking them in the rocking chair..i would even make a tent on my mom's bed and put them in it like they were in a cave..i had a great imigination... they would tolerate it for a while and then decide the fun was over..picky cats.... so if you have animals do you dress them up now?

or did you or your kids dress them up?

they looked so cute!.

Band on the Run

Small breeds need warm coats in the winter. Look at how toy dogs shiver during the summer. One of my fondest memories is when I came home from high school and was shocked to see the family dog dancing like a ballerina in my toddler doll's dress. She never put her front paws on the ground. My siblings did it. The unexpected shock was too much. She burst the seams of the dress when she put on weight. My doll went naked from that day.

49

Do all religions think there's is the only true one?

by Snoozy in

is there any religions out there that actually think that any religion is good as long as you worship?.

or do they all think the other religions are under the control of satan/the devil.. funny, i knew that the jw's felt that way but never really thought about the other religions.. is there any humble enough to admit they don't have all the truth and aren't any better than any other religion?.

that's the one i want to join... snoozy.

Band on the Run

I've specialiaed in the scholarly debates concerning the historical Jesus, figuring out who he was devoid of later Church teachings. Jesus never asserted he was God or even the messiah. It is central to how we view Christianity. References are made to the son of man. Son of God is a common term. All the kings and leaders of Israel were sons of God. My recollection is that son of man in Isaiah is the correct messianic person. Jesus mentions the term but never declares it is he. The language Jesus uses is unclear and coy. A related teaching is whether Jesus knew his preexistence in heaven and the vast powers He had. God being crucified, knowing he is God and stop it instantly makes the crucifixion less compelling.

The words of affirmation are placed in the mouth of others. His messianic claims were the core of HIs trial. Sometimes I wonder if they were so important during his ministry. All the teaching stories but not much clarity about his messianic consciousness. Gnosticism shed much light in this area. Reading countless journal articles and books, I was even more confused at the end than the beginning. The early church became bitterly divided over the nature of Christ, Christology. There are no easy formulations.

It seems that differences were often geographical and related to particular apostles who tradition claims taught different versions. Gnostic scriptures strongly resemble the canonical gospels in actual sayings of Jesus and narratives. The import of these sources is markedly different from orthodox Christianity but it is clear the same sources are used. The Witnesses teach a golden age of early Christianity. No golden age existed. Paul, the earliest Christian writer in the Bible, recounts his disagreements with the Jerusalem group led by James. I find this reassuring. It means that normal life rules existed rather than a Cecil B. DeMille production.

46

I Joined The YMCA

by minimus in

jw
friends

i hope i don't get disfellowshipped for playing raquetball..

Band on the Run

It gives people the wrong idea b/c it doesn't say Young Christendom. The hours spent at the Y could be spent going door to door, the prime directive.

Does anyone else have a wonderful sign of pleasure when doing something innocuous that the Society condemned? How are they going to know you are a member? My mom reproved me when I was a candy-striper with a snappy uniform and hat. She wanted me to do it so I could have fun and qualify for nursing school (a dream crushed b/c I could not give transfusions). Her problem was when I wanted to wear my uniform b/c I was proud and everyone else praised me when they saw me with it. I thought it would fit into my Ministry School assignment.

She lovingly explained why I would be condemned. I was so embarassed b/c I am people pleasing puppy dog. Ah, wicked, wicked me, wanting to work hard hours to meet guys, patients and have exposure to a field. The work was hard, too. If it weren't for the adorable uniform, it would have been over the first day. Whoever designed the candystripes knew how to play to teenage girls. No kidding -- it was a deep hurt.

When I go see the Beatles, Dylan, mega star or attend the ballet or opera at Lincoln Center, I just feel so wondrous and pinch myself. There is no way for me to explain it to friends.

49

Do all religions think there's is the only true one?

by Snoozy in

is there any religions out there that actually think that any religion is good as long as you worship?.

or do they all think the other religions are under the control of satan/the devil.. funny, i knew that the jw's felt that way but never really thought about the other religions.. is there any humble enough to admit they don't have all the truth and aren't any better than any other religion?.

that's the one i want to join... snoozy.

Band on the Run

They never will finish St. John the Unfinished. There was momentum in the entire region to complete it. A consecration ceremony opened up a small space for worship on the day WWII started. Momentum was lost. All those buildings on the close were donated by robber barons. Most of the Episcopal churches were completed before income tax was enacted. The whole diocese is very liberal. Paul Moore led a drive to finish the towers but it never took off. When homeless people present themselves, it is finished enough. It never looked better to me my last Christmas in NY right after September 11th. A massive fire swept through. Thousands of people volunteered to scrub it enough to have it ready for Christmas. The Clintons were there. People were determined to have a good Christmas after the horror downtown.

I hope to be buried in the crematorium there. There are better neighborhoods, however. It is safe but functional - the n/hood.

12

Elders and liability issues

by wannabefree in

elder, have you contacted the society's legal department and asked if they would recommend you carry a personal liability insurance policy?.

it would be interesting to hear their response.

would they say yes, no, or that is for you to decide.. the society has been sued and has paid out big settlements.

Band on the Run

I'm a lawyer. All parties should be named. Some might be seen as juicier than others. Frankly, I don't know how anyone with even a car in assets serves without insurance. The Society most certainly is a repeat player lawsuit. Their legal costs may be lower b/c the issues have already been litigated and the research is complete or only needs to be edited slightly. How we know that the Society does not insult? We would have no access to that info if it were protected by a confidentiality agreement.

Family members sue other family members. Protection makes sense. The Society is not leaving it up to Jehovah, their personal God. It seems silly to leave your hard-won assets to the caprice of a lawyer.

7

Should i publish what i write?

by Aussie Oz in

jw
friends

i have written an article mainly with my teenagers in mind as a way of hopefully reaching them.. i plan on writing more... subjects such as 'should you get baptised?, what happens after baptism?, teenage marriage etc.

the subjects are aimed squarly at teenage jehovahs witnesses.

i feel a bit passionate about that, as i see them being crucial to the survival of the wt and the more teens freed from them the better.. two are written already, in a no nonsense reality approch.

Band on the Run

I'm an American lawyer. copyright law will differ. I would think that consulting with a specialized lawyer might be worth it. The issue isn't only copyright but what your plans are overall, what options you can alter later, a business plan (even if you want to do it nonprofit). Many lawyers offer free or very low-cost consultations. It suppose it depends on how serious you are. Preparing for such a meeting might help you clarify your needs.

32

What is the JW view of the Ichtus (Fish) christianity symbol?

by james_woods in

the thread about the cross got me to thinking about this - i think i read somewhere that the earliest known christian relic was a mosaic display of the fish symbol - which was taken as a sign of christianity.. has the watchtower ever explained why they avoid the use of this symbol?.

have they ever explained why it is ok for them to use the watchtower as a symbol but not this?.

Band on the Run

Certain images are central to art. There are only so many combinations. When something has an exclusively different character, such as the fish, lamb and cross, what does it matter if people of a different culture once used something similar. No one sees a double meaning to the cross -- well, maybe Madonna. I don't think pagan is a good word to refer to pre-existing traditions. They are not less valued b/c some religion just happened to outlast them. They once reigned as legitimate. I had an encounter with voodoo candles where I volunteer. It is in a high-church Anglican space. Very European but people of African and Caribean descent moved into the neighborhood. I read of this happening in Catholic churches. My first reaction was terror. Pure terror because of the Witness belief concerning demons. There is no magic that makes white, beeswax, elegant candles any more proper than voodoo candles. Voodoo is a wrong term, too. Both groups seek to reach out to their concept of God.

I was told to leave the candles unharmed. It was not easy for me but I survived. Demons did not jump into my bed and ravish me that night. When the Witnesses moved the demons out of the living room and outdoors to the bedroom, I was done with officially believing in demons.